You wouldn’t even say this off anon. So brave.
What civilians would those be, exactly?
The bombing of Dresden, a joint action between the RAF and US air force, killed thousands of refugees fleeing the Soviets.
I think we need to acknowledge that the British Armed Forces (and a number of our allies) may not have been the shining knights we always think them to be.
The Nazis were stopped and as a Liberal member of the LGBT community I am thankful for that. Along with the fire bombing of Dresden there were the women and men from around the Empire who fought and died for a system that considered them second class citizens We sent foreigners into prison because of their nationality even if politically they opposed the Nazis. Our Royalty and politicians supported the Nazis before the outbreak of war and even during. Even to this day many here in Britain support their beliefs.
The death of civilians in war, no matter what side, is a terrible product of armed conflict and there are few countries who can claim to be 100% innocent of this crime.
However to the Anon please say things off anon as it validates your statement.
I mean there are historians and professors who consider the Bombing of Dresden to be a War Crime. Just because WWII was much more of a Just war than all the wars before it, it doesn’t mean that the “good ones” - with the exception of Stalin of course who screwed up generally by being Stalin and by terrorizing and torturing the German population as they advanced - didn’t screw up big time on occasion and I mean, you need to look no further than the atomic bomb or Mers el Kebir.
The bombing of Dresden was a justified bombing of a military and industrial target, which was a major rail transport and communication centre, housing 110 factories and 50,000 workers in support of the German war effort.
Secondly, it was the Germans who initiated indiscriminate targeting of civilians in both the first and second world world wars, unrestricted submarine warfare (which ultimately brought the U.S into WW1) and the blitz.
During the battle of Britain, which pre-dated the blitz and the american and soviet entry to the war in which the entire German war effort was geared toward destroying British ability to command the skies, and ultimately invade
With just over 300 modern aircraft and a handful of biplanes the royal air force was able to effectively engage and defeat everything the Luftwaffe had to throw at them, despite the only target of the enemy being British airfields and pilots.
Frankly no, i can’t imagine anything more brave than at the age of 18 being given less than 7 hours flight training in an immensely complicated aircraft and being expected to go and shoot down the enemy at 3 or 4 to 1 ratio with anything less simply not being enough. and then landing with only enough time to re arm and get back into the fight. It was extremely rare for a pilot to get more than 4 hours of sleep a night, a situation that continued for months on end. And you think uni is stressful (though i doubt you, annon are old/mature enough to have experienced higher education).
The sole hope for the salvation of the world against the tide of fascism rested in the tired but never demoralised hands of a few teenagers who where fully expected to die in the face of the enemy.
It was only after Hitler realised that he would never break the RAF (see directive 16) that he decided to switch from bombing airfields to bombing cities. The battle of Britain was won, the blitz was just beginning, And it is thanks to those handful of men and women who stood and flew alone while america and Russia watched, why we on these isle don’t speak German (I direct all Americans who read this to the sandhurst war games and invite them to finaly shut the fuck up)
It was the Germans who initiated large scale civilian bombing with the only objective being to beat the British people to the negotiating table, which if such a thing where to happen anywhere else I imagine most countries to capitulate. I can’t see the French allowing Paris to be bombed to dust and america was sent into hysterics after 9/11. Up until the blitz Churchill had ordered bomber command to only attack purely military targets, industrial targets too close to civilian centres would be ignored
Those brave men and women, annon, died in the last of defence between a Nazi empire and you being able to open your clearly uneducated and cowardly mouth to spout your mountains of shit
Of all the armed forces of all the countries of all the world i cannot think of an organisation who met and willing went up against such insurmountable odds with so much at stake and walked away the victor, as sir Winston Churchill so gracefully put it Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed, by so many, to so few…
So by all means, anon and all those who so hypocritically rant against those who would die so you could do just that, take your 16 year old ‘i don’t know i’m born yet’ social justice winging little bitch arse mentality and read a book.
Aha, yes, I am sorry if the view of several British Historians Antony Beevor, Donald Bloxham, Frederick Taylor (who even though doesn’t argue for the war crime argument, said in a Der Spiegel interview: “It was overdone, it was excessive and is to be regretted enormously. “) or Gregory Stanton (who is by the way the President of the Genocide Watch) counts more for me than someone who decides to insult someone over the internet and who is obviously so patriotic that they can’t foresee that they might not be quite so right.
Also, I’m not 16. I’m studying History at post-grad level so you will surely understand how annoyed I am by people who are so obviously blinded by their partiality that they don’t account for the fact that in History nothing is ever black or white and that maybe, maybe mistakes were made, excesses were committed even by the “good guys” and those excesses should at least prevent people from glorifying any sort of armed conflict. Welcome to History. It’s complex, it’s difficult. If you can’t deal with it, if you feel the need to reduce it to a simple yes or not then you might as well not express opinions before you read something.
For a start I was referring to the anon in the original post and i apologise for the confusion.
When it comes to the necessity of the bombing I was paraphrasing from a report by Joseph W Angell. I wasn’t attempting to reduce anything to ‘yes’ or ‘no’ question, the entirety of the post was directed at the original anon and I really couldn’t care less if you happen to study history or not, it doesn’t subtract from the fact I am justified in my defence of the royal air force who’s reputation has come under attack by a faceless coward.
And I certainly don’t need you to welcome me to history.
Are your parents siblings or something?
All of you little motherfuckers think that you can read a fucking Kent Follet book in your free time and become historians. I don’t know how the fuck did you even come to think you could even scratch the knowledge a historian has to collect, by reading some books in your little sailor boat.
We didn’t spend money and a lot of time studying so a random guy can tell us we are wrong because he saw a History Channel documentary and doesn’t like the way we apply historiographic method (if you even know what that is) to his glorious country.
Oh, I almost forgot, do you want to know something about your Royal Air Force?… does Dragon Rapide ring any bell? Well, it seems the just Royal Air Force, defenders of the weak!, let the would-be-dictator Francisco Franco rent one of their airplanes to fly to Spain and start the Civil War… oops.